Bug 15877 - Move from Bugzilla to Launchpad
Summary: Move from Bugzilla to Launchpad
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: freedesktop.org
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Bugzilla (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: Other All
: medium enhancement
Assignee: fd.o Admin Massive
QA Contact:
URL:
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Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2008-05-08 12:30 UTC by Sense Hofstede
Modified: 2008-05-10 05:02 UTC (History)
0 users

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Description Sense Hofstede 2008-05-08 12:30:51 UTC
After reading the title you could just mark this bug as WONTFIX and tell me that I shouldn't mess with a project that I'm not completely comfortable with. You could also call me an Ubuntu fanboy or Launchad lover. There are a lot of reasons you might not want to choose for Launchpad: the license issues, centralized and closed data and the loss of complete control of your wonderful project.

But think again. Freedesktop is an essential project for the Linux desktop. It is used in almost every distribution with the Linux kernel and maybe in even more operating systems. What Freedesktop needs in a way to manage its bugs in a good way, keep an overview of bug reports all over the internet. When you use Launchpad you'll have a wonderful bug system that can watch other bug trackers. The soyuz systems allows your developers to let Launchpad build the packages so it's ready for testing. With Rosetta you can easily translate your programs to any language, Answers will help you to provide support whilst Blueprints are a perfect way to manage your specs and integrate them with the bugs. 

I think freedesktop can really improve when they use this. It's the integration that makes things work. When bugs are reported in several distros you just add a Bug Watch for the different bug reports and Launchpad will notify you when their status changes. And Launchpad is still evolving!

Have a look at https://launchpad.net/+about and be surprised.

As a bonus you'll have Ubuntu as your neighbour, allowing further cooperation.

(No, I'm not a salesman! Nor am I paid for this. :P)

(PS: Bonus 2: Launchpad is much better looking an clearly set out than Bugzilla, at least that's my opinion. That could improve the quality of bug reports. Also Launchpad is much more known under the non-devs. So bug reports will be easier directed to you!)

(PPS: If you're wondering about migration support. Launchpad has such a thing, Ubuntu itself moved from Bugzilla to Launchpad and other projects are still doing this. So that shouldn't be a problem. There is even a system that ensures that the Bugzilla bug numbers can be used too!)

Now you can shoot me, have fun.
Comment 1 Daniel Stone 2008-05-08 13:30:10 UTC
On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:30:52PM -0700, bugzilla-daemon@freedesktop.org wrote:
> After reading the title you could just mark this bug as WONTFIX

Yeah, I am.  Sorry.

> and tell me
> that I shouldn't mess with a project that I'm not completely comfortable with.
> You could also call me an Ubuntu fanboy or Launchad lover. There are a lot of
> reasons you might not want to choose for Launchpad: the license issues,
> centralized and closed data and the loss of complete control of your wonderful
> project.

Those are exactly the issues.  Also, Launchpad is quite severly unusable
(it's been improving since day one, but Malone in particular is
godawful, even compared to Bugzilla).

> But think again. Freedesktop is an essential project for the Linux desktop. It
> is used in almost every distribution with the Linux kernel and maybe in even
> more operating systems. What Freedesktop needs in a way to manage its bugs in a
> good way, keep an overview of bug reports all over the internet. When you use
> Launchpad you'll have a wonderful bug system that can watch other bug trackers.

I need some time to sit down and get the XML-RPC stuff going in such a
way that we can collaborate with all our consumers (not as in marketing,
but as in people who use our APIs) and distributions.

> The soyuz systems allows your developers to let Launchpad build the packages so
> it's ready for testing.

Cheerfully, we're not in the binary distribution business.  There are a
load of people (Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, et al) who do a wonderful job of
getting our binaries down to the users.

> With Rosetta you can easily translate your programs to any language

Translation _is_ a problem we need to solve, but Rosetta is not the
answer.  The whole point of Rosetta was to get everyone using that as a
central translation resource, both pushing and pulling.  Until such time
as that happens (which would require moves from much bigger upstreams
than us), it's pretty much pointless.  The original intention was to
have everyone using it, and the decrease in solipsism was pretty much
retrofitted.

> Answers will help you to provide support whilst Blueprints are a
> perfect way to manage your specs and integrate them with the bugs. 

We already use a combination of Bugzilla and lists for these two, and it
works pretty fine.  Tools are a complete non-issue, compared to lack of
developer resources.

> I think freedesktop can really improve when they use this. It's the integration
> that makes things work. When bugs are reported in several distros you just add
> a Bug Watch for the different bug reports and Launchpad will notify you when
> their status changes. And Launchpad is still evolving!

We can do this with Bugzilla XML-RPC integration too.  Of the important
ones that I know about, the GNOME, KDE and Fedora bug trackers are all
Bugzilla, and I'm pretty sure they all support XML-RPC.  Pretty sure
Launchpad itself also supports XML-RPC, so we can get all these benefits
and not have to be at Launchpad's mercy.

(I think enough people were sufficiently burned by the 2002ish
 SourceForge experience that Launchpad's a pretty hard sell.)

> Have a look at https://launchpad.net/+about and be surprised.

Actually, I'm pretty hard to surprise when it comes to Launchpad.

> As a bonus you'll have Ubuntu as your neighbour, allowing further cooperation.

If there's anything we can do to have closer co-operation with Ubuntu
that doesn't involve us migrating to Launchpad, I'd love to hear about
it.  I'd be happy to hear ideas or see approaches from any Ubuntu
developers, and I'm sure any of the teams would gladly accept help in
development/translation/triage/you name it.

> (PS: Bonus 2: Launchpad is much better looking an clearly set out than
> Bugzilla, at least that's my opinion. That could improve the quality of bug
> reports. Also Launchpad is much more known under the non-devs. So bug reports
> will be easier directed to you!)

Bugzilla's interface needs cleaning up, yes.  But it can be done (see
bugzilla.gnome.org) very well: again, we just need the manpower to get
it done.

> (PPS: If you're wondering about migration support. Launchpad has such a thing,
> Ubuntu itself moved from Bugzilla to Launchpad and other projects are still
> doing this. So that shouldn't be a problem. There is even a system that ensures
> that the Bugzilla bug numbers can be used too!)

I'd hope that the migration's improved since then, because the Ubuntu
migration was rather painful at the time.

> Now you can shoot me, have fun.

Well, pretty much yes.  We're just not going to use Launchpad, full
stop.  If Canonical ever distribute the source, and it turns out to be
compelling for us to use Launchpad on our terms, with our data sitting
on our equipment, then I'm fine with that.  But at the moment, Canonical
is still relying on selling Launchpad to turn a profit (see Mark's
public statements on same), so that's not going to happen.

Moving off open source is an absolute non-starter.  We're
_free_desktop.org, and so we don't want to be supporting proprietary
data tools, with the safety of our data dependent on the financial
fortunes of one particular company (nothing against Canonical here: it's
happened before).  We have a responsibility to do the right thing, and
moving to Launchpad is pretty much the direct opposite of that in all
respects.

If you have anything concrete you would like to help fix or work on,
please, get involved.  I'd love to see our Bugzilla looking better, we
could make our accounts system a little bit happier, our Wikis need
attention, and most projects would definitely appreciate someone around
to triage bugs and translate.  We definitely welcome involvement there.

Cheers,
Daniel, who first used Launchpad in mid-2004
Comment 2 Daniel Stone 2008-05-10 05:02:46 UTC
On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:30:52PM -0700, bugzilla-daemon@freedesktop.org wrote:
> There are a lot of
> reasons you might not want to choose for Launchpad: the license issues,
> centralized and closed data and the loss of complete control of your wonderful
> project.

I should mention another one as well: that we'd have to ditch git and
migrate all our repositories to bzr.  This would be a hideously
retrograde step, and is a showstopper by itself.


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