Attachment 141 Details for Bug 306 – Early discussion on Gnome mailing list about this issue.

Early discussion on Gnome mailing list about this issue.

icebrokenness.txt (text/plain), 21.06 KB, created by Jim Gettys on 2004-03-15 10:29:13 UTC

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Created: 2004-03-15 10:29:13 UTC

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>To: gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>Subject: /tmp/.ICE-unix
>From: Havoc Pennington <hp@redhat.com>
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>
>Hi,
>
>I just found an annoying issue that adds 5 seconds to your login
>time. If you are seeing the message "mkdir: owner of /tmp/.ICE-unix
>should be set to root" then try chowning that directory to root. 
>
>Otherwise gnome-session hits this code path in libICE:
>
>            if (updateOwner && !updatedOwner) {
>                PRMSG(1, "mkdir: Owner of %s should be set to root\n",
>                      path, 0, 0);
>                sleep(5);
>            }
>            if (updateMode && !updatedMode) {
>                PRMSG(1, "mkdir: Mode of %s should be set to %04o\n",
>                      path, mode, 0);
>                sleep(5);
>            }
>
>Anyway, both of my machines had a non-root owner for .ICE-unix. I
>don't know how this happens, what the perms are supposed to be, or in
>general have any idea at all what is going on. But chowning manually
>seems to fix it.
>
>Anyone know what is going on here? Presumably it's a security issue in
>addition to causing a sleep(5)...
>
>Havoc
>
> 
>
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>From: Alan Cox <alan@redhat.com>
>Message-Id: <200109161330.f8GDUDR09350@devserv.devel.redhat.com>
>Subject: Re: /tmp/.ICE-unix
>To: hp@redhat.com (Havoc Pennington)
>Cc: gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>In-Reply-To: <y5w66aj4tnz.fsf@icon.labs.redhat.com> from "Havoc Pennington" at Sep 16, 2001 01:00:00 AM
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>> I just found an annoying issue that adds 5 seconds to your login
>> time. If you are seeing the message "mkdir: owner of /tmp/.ICE-unix
>> should be set to root" then try chowning that directory to root. 
>> 
>> Otherwise gnome-session hits this code path in libICE:
>> 
>>             if (updateOwner && !updatedOwner) {
>>                 PRMSG(1, "mkdir: Owner of %s should be set to root\n",
>>                       path, 0, 0);
>>                 sleep(5);
>>             }
>>             if (updateMode && !updatedMode) {
>>                 PRMSG(1, "mkdir: Mode of %s should be set to %04o\n",
>>                       path, mode, 0);
>>                 sleep(5);
>>             }
>> 
>> Anyway, both of my machines had a non-root owner for .ICE-unix. I
>> don't know how this happens, what the perms are supposed to be, or in
>> general have any idea at all what is going on. But chowning manually
>> seems to fix it.
>> 
>> Anyone know what is going on here? Presumably it's a security issue in
>> addition to causing a sleep(5)...
>
>If its a security issue sleep(5) is inappropriate it shgould be exit(1)
>
>_______________________________________________
>gnome-hackers mailing list
>gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-hackers
>
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>From: Seth Aaron Nickell <snickell@Stanford.EDU>
>To: Alan Cox <alan@redhat.com>
>Cc: Havoc Pennington <hp@redhat.com>, gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>Subject: Re: /tmp/.ICE-unix
>Message-Id: <20010916181126.A6450@myth3.stanford.edu>
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>> > Anyone know what is going on here? Presumably it's a security issue in
>> > addition to causing a sleep(5)...
>> 
>> If its a security issue sleep(5) is inappropriate it shgould be exit(1)
>
>Bullshit. Security is only worthwhile because it helps people maximize 
>their use of computers (given that security violations result in loss of 
>some functionality, whether that be privacy or actual data, or just time). 
>Changing that to "exit(1)" would mean that a lot of people could no longer 
>use GNOME. We have to start working on the assumption that we will have 
>users who are not familiar with *nix and the command-line or we have 
>absolutely no hope of ever creating an environment that is usable by 
>non-*nix geeks.
>
>Printing the data out to the commandline is also a silly approach. If this 
>represents a significant security violation, it should pop up a dialogue 
>warning the user, and offer to fix it (of course prompting for a root 
>password). 
>
>I've seen this on too many systems for exit(1) to be a viable option. 
>That's a cop-out.
>
>-Seth
>
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>	(envelope-from liam)
>From: Liam Quin <liam@holoweb.net>
>To: gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>Subject: Re: /tmp/.ICE-unix
>Message-Id: <20010916231849.B82498@dirk.holoweb.net>
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>On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 06:11:26PM -0700, Seth Aaron Nickell wrote:
>>>> Anyone know what is going on here? Presumably it's a security issue in
>>>> addition to causing a sleep(5)...
>
>Alan Cox pointed out:
>>> If its a security issue sleep(5) is inappropriate it shgould be exit(1)
>
>And Seth spluttered:
>> Bullshit. Security is only worthwhile because it helps people maximize 
>> their use of computers (given that security violations result in loss of 
>> some functionality, whether that be privacy or actual data, or just time). 
>
>This is the reasoning that led to Microsoft Bob prompting you with your
>password if you guessed wrong too many times.
>
>If the ownership is important, bring up a modal dlog box and wait for
>the user to say, "OK, run anyway" or something.
>
>If the ownership is not important, why check for it in the first place?
>
>So...
>
>> Printing the data out to the commandline is also a silly approach. If this 
>> represents a significant security violation, it should pop up a dialogue 
>> warning the user, and offer to fix it (of course prompting for a root 
>> password). 
>
>Here we agree.  Unless maybe even that much access can cause security
>problems.
>
>Lee
>
>-- 
>Liam Quin - XML Core staff contact, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
>Ankh: irc.sorcery.net www.valinor.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org
>Author, Open Source XML Database Toolkit, Wiley August 2000
>Co-author: The XML Specification Guide, Wiley 1999; Mastering XML, Sybex 2001
>
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>To: Seth Aaron Nickell <snickell@Stanford.EDU>
>Cc: Alan Cox <alan@redhat.com>, gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>Subject: Re: /tmp/.ICE-unix
>References: <y5w66aj4tnz.fsf@icon.labs.redhat.com>
>	 <200109161330.f8GDUDR09350@devserv.devel.redhat.com>
>	 <20010916181126.A6450@myth3.stanford.edu>
>From: Havoc Pennington <hp@redhat.com>
>In-Reply-To: Seth Aaron Nickell's message of "Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:11:26 -0700"
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>
>Seth Aaron Nickell <snickell@Stanford.EDU> writes: 
>> Printing the data out to the commandline is also a silly approach. If this 
>> represents a significant security violation, it should pop up a dialogue 
>> warning the user, and offer to fix it (of course prompting for a root 
>> password). 
>> 
>> I've seen this on too many systems for exit(1) to be a viable option. 
>> That's a cop-out.
>
>What would the dialog say? "Hi. Some weird permissions are mangled on
>some weird file resulting in ICE authentication insecurity. Please
>give your root password to do something you don't understand." ;-)
>
>I don't think so. If it's a security issue (and I think it probably is
>- whoever owns the dir can delete everyone else's ICE sockets), then
>it's a cop-out if we ever let the situation arise. I think we've let
>it arise because people haven't noticed the message or didn't think it
>was important, because it doesn't fatally crash. This is an assertion
>failure, in other words, it's not an expected error condition. At
>least that's my interpretation. I would have put maybe a
>g_assert_not_reached() in this spot, not sleep (5). It represents a
>system bug.
>
>I feel like there's a gap in my understanding however, because this
>code is clearly meant to be run from the session manager, and the SM
>is never running as root, and the code thus has no chance of creating
>a root-owned directory; so I don't get how any session manager was
>ever meant to get this right. Neither GNOME nor KDE appear to handle
>this case (KDE has their own cut-and-paste of the ICE code for some
>reason, but this piece of the code is unmodified). I don't think the
>ancient xsm does anything special either.  
>
>We need to track down whoever originally designed this code. ;-) Sadly
>all the file says is Open Group and NCR Corporation. ;-)
>
>The same code runs to create /tmp/.X11-unix, for the X server
>connections, but I think in that case getting the perms right is done
>by the xserver and involves running as root at least part of the time.
>Clearly we can't run gnome-session as root.
>
>I can imagine plenty of ways to create that dir with the right
>permissions before gnome-session runs, but I am really curious what
>the Right Way is.
>
>Havoc
>
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>From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@noisehavoc.org>
>To: Havoc Pennington <hp@redhat.com>
>Cc: Seth Aaron Nickell <snickell@Stanford.EDU>, Alan Cox <alan@redhat.com>, gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>Subject: Re: /tmp/.ICE-unix
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>On 16Sep2001 11:37PM (-0400), Havoc Pennington wrote:
>> 
>> Seth Aaron Nickell <snickell@Stanford.EDU> writes: 
>> > Printing the data out to the commandline is also a silly approach. If this 
>> > represents a significant security violation, it should pop up a dialogue 
>> > warning the user, and offer to fix it (of course prompting for a root 
>> > password). 
>> > 
>> > I've seen this on too many systems for exit(1) to be a viable option. 
>> > That's a cop-out.
>> 
>> What would the dialog say? "Hi. Some weird permissions are mangled on
>> some weird file resulting in ICE authentication insecurity. Please
>> give your root password to do something you don't understand." ;-)
>> 
>> I don't think so. If it's a security issue (and I think it probably is
>> - whoever owns the dir can delete everyone else's ICE sockets), then
>> it's a cop-out if we ever let the situation arise. I think we've let
>> it arise because people haven't noticed the message or didn't think it
>> was important, because it doesn't fatally crash. This is an assertion
>> failure, in other words, it's not an expected error condition. At
>> least that's my interpretation. I would have put maybe a
>> g_assert_not_reached() in this spot, not sleep (5). It represents a
>> system bug.
>
>A filesystem condition should never be an assertion failure. It should
>always result in an error message explaining what's wrong, and ideally
>how to fix it (possibly followed by exiting if the error is not
>recoverable, although it's better to degrade gracefully or fix the
>problem). The filesystem should be considered untrusted external data.
>
>I have no opinion on the rest of your message (about how to get the
>permissions right) because I don't know much about this specific
>issue.
>
>Regards,
>
>Maciej
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>gnome-hackers mailing list
>gnome-hackers@gnome.org
>http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-hackers
>
>--1--
>

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