Bug 12237 (OpenIM)

+1

Documentation about closed protocols is scattered around many places, if existing at all.

We need a central place to put what we have found, and share knowledge about projects doing similar things.

Hi,
I like the idea and I always thought about the same thing, an OpenIM community for all IM protocols. 
Although the need for it seems important for closed protocols, especially concerning sharing reverse engineering effort and documentation. But the idea should not be limited to closed protocols, and it should be open for all IM protocols.

Proposal summary updated as Youness' comment makes sense.

+1

I agree, that such a project is needed.

(I'm not a fd.o admin, just trying to help)

Could you tell what you need? :-)
A mailing list? Wiki? cvs/git repository?

(In reply to comment #5)
> (I'm not a fd.o admin, just trying to help)
> 
> Could you tell what you need? :-)
> A mailing list? Wiki? cvs/git repository?

I think a mailing list and a wiki are a must. A SCM repository not so much.

Personally I would like a wiki where huge chunks of xml could be properly displayed.

So thing like this get properly formatted:
http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Pymsn/MSNP/ContactListActions

(In reply to comment #5)
> (I'm not a fd.o admin, just trying to help)
> Could you tell what you need? :-)
> A mailing list? Wiki? cvs/git repository?

I'd say the three, in order to host some homeless projects (I think about pymsn there). The mailing list is mandatory and a wiki with good formatting features is needed to build the documentations (so maybe just a space where to install a clean documentation system).

+1 
i tried to gather informations on MSNP15 but i had bad result, or i find informations shared with the previous protocol versions, with the need of reading all of them and understand the differences from one to another. I'll be glad to help writing documentation, starting in that way to understand better the problem

Howdy, whilst I agree that having open specs would be great, there is a lot of IM projects around (gaim,sim-icq,libmsn,etc). Unless a couple of the existing im projects are willing to contribute existing specs and make use of the specs then this project may struggle to get momentum. Until a little more momentum is shown, this project is  better hosted else where.

Cheers,
  Ben
  fd.o Wrangler

Hi,
I'm developer and admin of the aMSN project and I'm willing to share all my knowledge once such a project gets created. In fact, I'm already joining my effort to Johann's and Ali's for the pymsn project and we're actively reverse engineering what's left of the newer protocol. I'm sure if this project gets created others will join in.

I've already written some documentation on the MSN protocol, but it's sparse, and the full documentation on the webcam protocol was on a site that no longer exists (hence the need for a fd.o project where I'm sure my efforts will not be wasted).

I also know the developer of the GnomeICU project and he's also interested in this idea and willing to share his knowledge of the Oscar protocol when such a project gets created...

Here's your 'couple of projects' who want to contribue, so I'm reopening the bug, willing it will get accepted now :)

Thanks,
KaKaRoTo

Hi Folks,
 Here's the deal. You need to get all the people, who say they are willing to participate to add some basic information to this bug about what they will be contributing and you need some support from the larger IM clients. If you can get the big groups to agree to start documenting the protocols then the project will be created. The problem is an openIM type project was tried in the past but due to conflicts between the groups, fell apart. We don't want a repeat.

Pull that off you get your project, otherwise we suggest you try elsewhere.

Hi Ben,

aMSN is one of the largest IM clients, it is one of 'the big groups' :p 
In any case, I just wrote to the pidgin developer's mailing list, I guess that should do it since pidgin is the most popular IM client available (afaik), and, as opposed to aMSN, it supports multi protocol, so their support will be important for this project. We'll see what they say.
I also wrote to the GnomeICU developer to tell him to comment here.

I don't know any other big players I could contact, if you have any suggestion, don't hesitate.

Thanks for the opportunity.
KaKaRoTo

Hi, I'm Sascha Vogt, involved in the CenterIM development (successor of CenterICQ). I also think this is a great idea. Therefore I forwarded this bug-report to our devel-mailinglist. Hopefully someone is willing to help here and there.

I recommend to also document protocol changes in older protocol versions. We had two of them recently (one with MSN and one with ICQ).

Hello,

I think that this project should be given a chance. The only way to get it to get the momentum needed, is to have it under the freedesktop.org flag.

The goal of the freedesktop.org project, if I understood it correctly, is to build a completely free desktop for everyone to use, and today IM technologies are definitely part of everyone's desktop.

Fortunately there already exist a freedesktop.org project that strives to make IM and real-time communication ubiquitous and seemless, I am naming the Telepathy project here, unfortunately today's most popular protocols are more or less proprietary: AIM in north America, Yahoo! in south east Asia, QQ in China, MSN in Europe, Africa and south America.

I believe that with a freedesktop.org project for documenting undocumented popular IM protocol, we be able to achieve a greater step toward a really free desktop.

As a pymsn (currently the most up to date and complete MSNMSGR implementation) developer, I definitely see the need for this project, and I am confident about its success.

(In reply to comment #12)
 
> aMSN is one of the largest IM clients, it is one of 'the big groups' :p 
> In any case, I just wrote to the pidgin developer's mailing list, I guess that
> should do it since pidgin is the most popular IM client available (afaik), and,
> as opposed to aMSN, it supports multi protocol, so their support will be
> important for this project. We'll see what they say.
> I also wrote to the GnomeICU developer to tell him to comment here.

The Pidgin situation is a little complicated. Basically I'm the author of most of the MSN plugin, and I don't think any major developer really cares about MSN. I'm not sure if you can get their support.

I'm starting a fork of the MSN protocol plugin for Pidgin, and you definitely have my support ;)

(In reply to comment #15)
> (In reply to comment #12)
> 
> The Pidgin situation is a little complicated. Basically I'm the author of most
> of the MSN plugin, and I don't think any major developer really cares about
> MSN. I'm not sure if you can get their support.
> 

Well, this project is not at all about MSN, it's about 'IM protocols', so AIM, yahoo, ICQ, Bonjour even Jabber. All protocols (closed or open). A single place to document them and a single project to gather libraries implementing them.

> I'm starting a fork of the MSN protocol plugin for Pidgin, and you definitely
> have my support ;)
> 

Cool, thanks for your support! :)
The new plugin would be more complete, compatibility/feature-wise ? then you definitely need OpenIM and our help :)

+1

This documentation effort would be a huge aid to those opening closed protocols for interoperability. It would mean the sharing of information for anyone and everyone, and would further bridge the gap between the closed and open source instant messaging world.

Surely sharing and interoperability are part of the core foundations of freedesktop.org, and such a project would only complement the already excellent work on this site.

Ok, sounds like there's a few ppl willing to make this happen. Since this is primarily a documentation project, how about we start with a wiki for docs.

I also think the name openIM needs to change. Whilst I agree it's a cool name, a quick search reveals a java client with the same name. Got any other names? perhaps allIM? (never was any good with names :)

Also who's going to take the responsibility for the project. That person coordinates it and also gets admin on the wiki.

Hi,

Following the discussion to determine if fd.o was the right place to start the OpenIM project, an email thread started from the Pidgin mailing list led the IM Freedom people proposing us to support the OpenIM initiative.

After some bits of discussions, we figured out that IM Freedom would be a better nest than fd.o for OpenIM. For instance, IM Freedom was created some time ago to give a legal facade to the gaim developers facing lawsuit threat from AOL and considering the nature of OpenIM, that could help. Some other reasons made sense during the discussion.

So the OpenIM initiative, first discussed here will start under IM Freedom banner. Anyone willing to help or get acknowledge of what is done may want to join the IM Freedom mailing list.

We appreciate a lot the attention that you guys gave to our proposal.

Thank you,

Johann

Hi Folks,
  Just as a side note to a closed bug. It might be worth talking to the Protocol Freedom Information Foundation. They may be able to get you the MSN specs as part of the EU agreement from Microsoft. - Worth a try anyway.

http://www.protocolfreedom.org/