Bug 45588

I am not sure this is a German l10n inconsistency. I think at least some of these are also inconsistent terminology in the English version, e.g. 

Insert->Formatting Mark->Optional Hyphen vs.
Options->LibreOffice Writer->Formatting Ais-> Display of *Custom* Hyphens
vs. "User defined delimiters" in Online Help 

I think semantic differences have to be checked, but this is a good catch.

(in German)

Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob diese Uneinheitlichkeit nur auf die deutsche Version beschränkt ist. Ich denke, zumindest einige dieser inkonsistenten Bezeichnungen finden sich auch in der Englischen Version (von der die deutsche übersetzt wird, daher kommen die Uneinheitlichkeiten vermutlich zustande), z.B. 

Insert->Formatting Mark->Optional Hyphen vs.
Options->LibreOffice Writer->Formatting Ais-> Display of *Custom* Hyphens
vs. "User defined delimiters" in Online Help 

Ich denke man sollte überprüfen ob es da einen Bedeutungsunterschied gibt, ansonsten ist das eine gute Entdeckung, die man auf jeden Fall korrigieren sollte.

@ Rainer
Please, see at this bug. German and English terms inconsistency.

I added this one to my todo line

Might have roots in English Help

Ctrl+Shift+minus sign (-) 	Non-breaking dash (is not used for hyphenation) 
 <http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer>
but
Non-breaking hyphen 
 <http://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Formatting_Mark>

I think first we should do unification in English UI and then check again whether German inconsistencies remain

@Jochen:
What proceeding do you recommend?

(In reply to comment #4)
> I think first we should do unification in English UI and then check again
> whether German inconsistencies remain

IMHO the following is purposeful:
1) Clarify what are the correct terms in English
2) Clarify if terms are in english UI and help entered correctly
3) Clarify what are the correct terms in German
4) Localisation in German

The following terms for the formatting marks are used in Wikipedia and LO:

[1]
English Wikipedia: Non-breaking space
German Wikipedia: Geschütztes Leerzeichen
Unicode: U+00A0
In English also known as: No-break space, non-breakable space, NBSP, hard space, fixed space
In German also known as: Dauerleerzeichen
Terms used in English UI and LO Help: non-breaking space, protected space
Terms used in German UI and LO Help: Only "geschütztes Leerzeichen"
Proposal for LO, English: None-breaking space
Proposal for LO, German: Geschütztes Leerzeichen

[2]
English Wikipedia: Non-breaking hyphen
German Wikipedia: Geschützter Bindestrich
Unicode: U+2011
Terms used in Englich UI and LO Help: non-breaking hyphen, non-breaking dash, protected hyphen, non-breaking (protected) hyphen
Terms used in German UI and LO Help: only "Geschützter Bindestrich"
Proposal for LO, English: Non-breaking hyphen
Proposal for LO, German: geschützter Bindestrich

[3]
English Wikipedia: Soft hyphen
German Wikipedia: Weiches Trennzeichen
Unicode: U+00AD
In German also known as: Bedingter Trennstrich
Terms used in English UI and Help: optional hyphen, custom hyphen, definite separator, conditional separator, user-defined delimiter
Terms used in German UI and Help: bedingter Trennstrich, benutzerdefinierter Trennstrich
Proposal for LO, English: Soft hyphen
Proposal for LO, German: Weiches Trennzeichen

In the UI I found these positions where the terms for formatting marks are used:
(a) E: Insert > Formatting Mark
    G: Einfügen > Formatierungszeichen
(b) E: Tools > Options... > LibreOffice Writer > Formatting aids
    G: Extras > Optionen... > LibreOffice Writer > Formatierungshilfen

In the Help I found these help pages where the terms are used:
(c) E + G: Help page to (b)
(d) E: Inserting Protected Spaces, Hyphens and Conditional Separators 
    G: Einfügen von geschützten Leerzeichen, geschützten Bindestrichen 
       und bedingten Trennstrichen.
(e) E: Formatting Mark
    G: Formatierungszeichen
(f) E: Shortcut Keys for LibreOffice Writer
    G: Tastaturbefehle für Textdokumente
(g) E: Hyphenation
    G: Silbentrennung
If you can not find these pages at once, use the find feature of Help.

I'm not sure if I found all occurences (UI and Help) where terms for formatting marks are used. If you find more please add a comment here.

Hello Harald, *,
as it is not only a problem in the Germanophone UI and OLH, but also in the English one, I changed the summary ... ;)

I think, Jochen's comment 5 (and there the points 1 and 2) are the first things, which should be done.

Tested with LO Version: 4.1.0.1 Build ID: 1b3956717a60d6ac35b133d7b0a0f5eb55e9155
and installed Germanophone help- as well as langpack under Debian Testing AMD64.

Sorry for the inconvenience
Thomas.

On pc Debian x86-64 with master sources updated today, I still got different options:
Insert->Formatting Mark->Optional Hyphen vs.
Options->LibreOffice Writer->Formatting Ais-> Display of *Custom* Hyphens
But online help matches the second one, see https://help.libreoffice.org/swriter/modules/swriter/ui/optformataidspage/OptFormatAidsPage?Language=en-US&System=UNIX&Version=4.4#Custom_hyphens

ux-advise: should we change first one so all the 3 would match?

Please change both UI and help to use the most common terms: “non-breaking space”, “non-breaking hyphen” and “soft hyphen”. I would recommend elaborating on the meaning of these somewhere in Help (and maybe including synonyms), so that all doubts are cleared.

Julien Nabet committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=46b7a08767e17ff1ef086393c4e111a8ffa19d55

Related: fdo#45588 Use of different items for Formatting Marks



The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

These 3 elements must be changed:
1) To change Option Hyphen from Insert/Formatting Mark
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/GenericCommands.xcu#5548

2) To change Custom Hyphens Options->LibreOffice Writer->Formatting Aids
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sw/uiconfig/swriter/ui/optformataidspage.ui#59

3) Help
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/help/source/text/shared/optionen/01040600.xhp


1) and 2) have been done on master sources with this patch: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=46b7a08767e17ff1ef086393c4e111a8ffa19d55
but not sure about what to put for 3.
Jan/Andras: any idea what to put precisely?

If all this ok, may we backport this on 4.3 or is too late (for example because of "Hard English string & UI freeze" already done)?