| Summary: | FILEOPEN: [Template Manager]Possibility to edit a template that is not in the repository, is lacking | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Product: | LibreOffice | Reporter: | pierre-yves samyn <pierre-yves.samyn> |
| Component: | UI | Assignee: | Not Assigned <libreoffice-bugs> |
| Status: | NEW --- | QA Contact: | |
| Severity: | major | ||
| Priority: | medium | CC: | cno, heinzlesspam, jbfaure, jmadero.dev, m.nienberg, qubit, Reinhard |
| Version: | 4.0.0.1 rc | Keywords: | regression |
| Hardware: | Other | ||
| OS: | All | ||
| Whiteboard: | BSA bibisectUnhelpful | ||
| i915 platform: | i915 features: | ||
| Attachments: | Screenshot FileOpenEditTemplate.png | ||
|
Description
pierre-yves samyn
2013-02-24 12:06:13 UTC
Getting Astron involved. Astron - apologies but you are the only one that I know of who really knows this stuff well. @Joel: Happy to oblige, even if my understanding of template stuff is actually rather cursory. @Pierre-Yves, I take it, you use "model" in the meaning of "template"? That confused me a bit... So, as far as I understand you, you want an extra tick box in the Open dialogue that allows switching between (1) opening the template and (2) opening a new document based on the template. Is that correct? * I would assume the second point is likely what user want in the majority of cases * It seems reasonably simple to just overwrite the template by using Save As... in the end to achieve what you'd intend by going the first route. Hello Thank you for your response (In reply to comment #2) > @Pierre-Yves, I take it, you use "model" in the meaning of "template"? That > confused me a bit... Yes "model" means "template", sorry for my bad english... :( > So, as far as I understand you, you want an extra tick box in the Open > dialogue that allows switching between > (1) opening the template and > (2) opening a new document based on the template. > Is that correct? No additional check box is needed: I suggest that the choice of document type makes the difference. 1.If the user explicitly chooses "template" (see screenshot "FileOpenEditTemplate.png), "File> Open" edits the template (new behaviour) 2.Otherwise "File> Open" creates a new document based on the template (current behaviour) As I said before: *This would be consistent with what is done for File> Save. *It does not add menu entry or anything else *It does not change the template manager *It provides a utility to File> Open> Type: Model, currently overlap with File> Open *This allows to "recover" functionality lost with the new manager. > * I would assume the second point is likely what user want in the majority of > cases I do not agree with that: if the user specifies the type "Template", he wants to edit the template. As an example: when you want to open a text file (.txt) in the spreadsheet, you select the filter in the list, otherwise it opens in Writer. It would not be acceptable that the choice of filter would not be respected. Currently, choose the "template" filter or not makes no difference. > * It seems reasonably simple to just overwrite the template by using Save > As... The software allows me to create something, does not allow me to change it. I need to create a copy and replace the original. It is indeed possible ... but it is a workaround. I'm not sure that we should be satisfied ... Regards Pierre-Yves Created attachment 75620 [details]
Screenshot FileOpenEditTemplate.png
*** Bug 61465 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** comment from dup: Cor Nouws 2013-02-25 22:21:28 UTC In version 3.6.x and previous you could choose File > Template > Edit and then browse to any location to edit a template. In 4.0.x this is no longer possible. Work arounds exist. But I do not have an office suite to use work arounds ;-) What about adding the option that Shift+Open in the file open dialog opens the template as such, in stead of making a new document derived from the template? Hello (In reply to comment #7) > What about adding the option that Shift+Open in the file open dialog opens > the template... I doubt that it is very intuitive. Why add a feature when there is *already* one, as I said: selection of the type "template" in the Open dialog ? By doing this the user makes clear its intention to open the template. Users are accustomed to using this list to change the default opening. This is the same list that they used to save as "template". I'm always surprised that the choice "template" has no effect when opening and it creates a new document. It is almost a bug to me. Sorry but it seems so simple to me (I'm not talking about ease of implementation) that I do not understand why any of the intervenants in this thread gives its opinion on this proposal? Best regards Pierre-Yves In my organization we also need to edit templates that are not within the template directory structure, so are not available through the Template Manager. v4.0 has confused us with the disappearance of the File>Templates menu, particularly since it is still mentioned in the Help menu. I don't have any preference for how to add this ability back to the program, but we definitely need it. Long time no answer... (In reply to comment #8) > Why add a feature when there is *already* one, as I said: selection of the > type "template" in the Open dialog ? > > By doing this the user makes clear its intention to open the template. No, not at all (at least I can't see any reason why filtering for templates would mean that a user wants to edit said template). All the format picker does and should do in this case is filter out unwanted file formats. To me, your solutions seems rather unintuitive, because it is hard to trigger and rather oblique to the user. > Users are accustomed to using this list to change the default opening. > This is the same list that they used to save as "template". Right, but: a) what you say goes only for saving b) you can still override that choice by adding a file extension and quotes around the file name (or at least that's the way it is in notepad.exe, not completely sure about LibO) @Cor, comment 7: Shift-Click is an interesting idea, but I see two problems with it: * It's not particularly discoverable either (though that doesn't disqualify it as a secondary way to access the function) * Shift-Click is usually associated with multiple selections in this context, as is Ctrl-Click, so I am a bit dubious about whether it would be confusing to have two different interpretations of Shift-Click so close to each Hello (In reply to comment #10) > Long time no answer... and so thank you for your answer even if I do not share your point of view :) > No, not at all (at least I can't see any reason why filtering for templates > would mean that a user wants to edit said template). Yes, definitely for me :) As I said in comment 3 when you want to open a text file (.txt) in the spreadsheet, you select the filter in the list, otherwise it opens in Writer. Select the file's type *changes* the default open mode for the *same* file. > > Users are accustomed to using this list to change the default opening. > > This is the same list that they used to save as "template". > > Right, but: > a) what you say goes only for saving Up to now... Best regards Pierre-Yves Hi Pierre-Yves (comment #11), > As I said in comment 3 when you want to open a text file (.txt) in the > spreadsheet, you select the filter in the list, otherwise it opens in Writer. Hm, I can't reproduce that on 4.0 on Linux ... .txt files only show up when I select "Text Documents" as the filter. Or is that just how you'd wish it to work? Oh, btw, I forgot what would think would be the best solution for it: The new Template Manager contains a cogwheel/Action menu, which could be extended to look like this: [ ] Reverse sort order Refresh --------------------------- Edit external template (I guess the wording could be shorter, though. Ideas welcome.) Additionally, something like Cor's idea (comment #7) could be implemented, although I don't know if either Ctrl or Shift are good modifiers (see comment above). (CC'ing Cedric.) Hi (In reply to comment #12) > Hm, I can't reproduce that on 4.0 on Linux ... .txt files only show up when > I select "Text Documents" as the filter. You're right, I was not specific enough. Steps to reproduce: 1. File> Open Filters: All files (*.*) is selected, so you can see and... 2. Select your .txt file 3. Click the drop down list, down to the spreadsheet filters and 4. Select Text (*.csv) 5. Click Open The spreadsheet wizard starts to open the file in the spreadsheet. > new Template Manager contains a cogwheel/Action menu, which could be > extended to look like this: > > [ ] Reverse sort order > Refresh > --------------------------- > Edit external template This could be a solution > Additionally, something like Cor's idea (comment #7) could be implemented, > although I don't know if either Ctrl or Shift are good modifiers (see > comment above). To be honest I do not like this type of solution. Microsoft used it (I do not know if this is still the case) to change for example the Close menu (changed to "Close All"). My experience as trainer and support tells me that this feature was not intuitive and therefore unknown. I may be wrong ... Best regards Pierre-Yves *** Bug 65408 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** How about just keeping it simple and adding a menu item like this File > Edit Template... It could go just below the existing File > Save As Template... We have already implemented something similar in our office using Basic macros. The loss of the ability to edit templates in random locations was causing lots of headaches. one can hardly classify this as an enhancement with dry eyes. Set as major bug. Restricted my LibreOffice hacking area After discussion at the UX hackfest, solution choosen in to add it to the menu File > Templates that then will have the entries: Manage.. Save as Template Open for Editing.. Hello (In reply to comment #18) > After discussion at the UX hackfest, solution choosen in to add it to the > menu File > Templates It would be ok for me This feature is required and expected by users... Thank you Regards Pierre-Yves (In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #6) > In version 3.6.x and previous you could choose > File > Template > Edit > and then browse to any location to edit a template. > > In 4.0.x this is no longer possible. Sounds like change is in the bibisectable range: Whiteboard -> bibisectRequest But it's unclear to me if bibisecting would be directly applicable here. Cor: Please feel free to change bibisectRequest -> bibisectUnhelpful , if appropriate. (In reply to Robinson Tryon (qubit) from comment #20) > Cor: Please feel free to change bibisectRequest -> bibisectUnhelpful , if > appropriate. Hi Robinson: I'll do so. It's just a new but incomplete implementation of the template manager. Looking at various other stuff that is marked as MAB, IMNSHO this one should be there too... |
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