Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon / Tribe 5 MacBooks (not sure about MacBook Pros) have only left ALT key. This key should be used as a third lever chooser. When you select MacBook layout, it comes as "Use right alt as third lever chooser" option. Because there is no right alt in this keyboard, typing third lever characters is impossible. Finnish/Swedish layouts are affected at least (typing @ is impossible with the default settings) Workaround: Use Gnome keyboard preferences and turn on "use any ALT as a third lever modifier"
This is related: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8068
Since that bug is already fixed - does it cover this one as well?
(In reply to comment #2) > Since that bug is already fixed - does it cover this one as well? > Only the discussion is related. The patch includes an option to map Apple key as a modifier: "It also includes a new option altwin:alt_win which puts alt on the windows keys. The window key is actually the apple key for the macbook of course, but its the key next to the spacebar where i'm used to alt being." This is just the patch submitter's personal habit. It actually doesn't fix the real problem that is 1) Macbook keyboards use left alt as a third lever chooser (on OSX and physically) 2) Only right alt is mapped as third lever chooser when Macbook layout is selected). Since this key is not physically present, one cannot type third level characters.
> 1) Macbook keyboards use left alt as a third lever chooser (on OSX and > physically) Well, if you want to use LAlt as AltGr - you'd be left without "normal" alt at all. Is that what you want?
s a third lever chooser (on OSX and > > physically) > Well, if you want to use LAlt as AltGr - you'd be left without "normal" alt at > all. Is that what you want? > This is what MacOSX does. As far as I know, Windows doesn't make difference between Alt and AltGr unless a key containg third lever characters is pressed. Do you need "normal" Alt for anything on Linux? Can one access shortcuts (Alt+F for File menu) etc. if the behaviour is modified? I can speak only for myself, but it's much more important to be able to type normal text (third level characters) and worrying about the shortcuts comes later. Typing a simple email (needs third level @ character) is not possible on international Macbook and default settings. Maybe Left AltGr behaviour could be made default for international Macbook layouts and US would preserve the current default behaviour?
(In reply to comment #0) > Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon / Tribe 5 > > MacBooks (not sure about MacBook Pros) have only left ALT key. This key should > be used as a third lever chooser. When you select MacBook layout, Also, confirmed that Macbook Pros lack right alt too.
> As far as I know, Windows doesn't make difference between Alt and AltGr unless > a key containg third lever characters is pressed. I'm afraid this is not possible in X. > I can speak only for myself, but it's much more important to be able to type > normal text (third level characters) and worrying about the shortcuts comes > later. Typing a simple email (needs third level @ character) is not possible on > international Macbook and default settings. True. But the alternative would be disabling all shortcuts containing Alt. These problems I would consider as equally bad. > Maybe Left AltGr behaviour could be made default for international Macbook > layouts and US would preserve the current default behaviour? Sorry, I do not quite follow - which layouts/variants do you mean? The default mac US layout is the section "mac" in symbols/us. Do you propose another variant ("mac-intl")?
> > international Macbook and default settings. > True. But the alternative would be disabling all shortcuts containing Alt. > These problems I would consider as equally bad. Well, I noticed this. ALT-Tab swapping doesn't work >_< This situation is really desperate. If someone besides Sergev reads this, here is the summary 1. MacBook owners assume that the one and only left Alt key will be the third level chooser 2. X can't use the same Alt key as a third level chooser and normal Alt (shortcut in menus etc.) simultaneously. The default behavior is bind Alt as a shortcut key, not as the third level chooser. OSX uses Meta (Apple key) for shortcuts. In OSX, there is no Alt-style menu shortcuts, but all shortcuts are CTRL-style. This is why the issue is not relevant in OSX. There are two Apple keys, however. Here are my suggestions: Temporary solution: Bind third level chooser to right Apple key. This is more like normal PC keyboard. Make sure that international MacBook newbies will be properly notified for the issue. There is no hope that anyone would find this without instructions. Permanent solution: Is there a possible way to bind the third level chooser key and Alt key for the same physical key in xkb? > > Maybe Left AltGr behaviour could be made default for international Macbook > > layouts and US would preserve the current default behaviour? > Sorry, I do not quite follow - which layouts/variants do you mean? The default > mac US layout is the section "mac" in symbols/us. Do you propose another > variant ("mac-intl")? There is already Macbook/MacbookPro (intl.) layout listed in my keyboard preferences in Gnome. I guess this translates to macbook79 in lower levels of xkb.
> 1. MacBook owners assume that the one and only left Alt key will be the third > level chooser Ok, if the owners in their default operational system assumes Alt key will be the third level chooser, i think xkeyboard-config needs to emulate the same behavior and use left Alt key as third level chooser. > OSX uses Meta (Apple key) for shortcuts. In OSX, there is no Alt-style menu > shortcuts, but all shortcuts are CTRL-style. This is why the issue is not > relevant in OSX. Bind Meta (Apple key) to Alt. That fixes all and the behavior will be the same of OSX as needed. > Bind third level chooser to right Apple key. This is more like normal PC > keyboard. Make sure that international MacBook newbies will be properly > notified for the issue. There is no hope that anyone would find this without > instructions. Well, my idea is different. I think we need to be more like MacBook in a MacBook -;) > Permanent solution: > > Is there a possible way to bind the third level chooser key and Alt key for the > same physical key in xkb? Hmmmm and how we do with keyboard shortcuts that use the same keys as shortcuts? Like € and Alt+E?
> Hmmmm and how we do with keyboard shortcuts that use the same keys as > shortcuts? > Like € and Alt+E? This will possible require code level changes in xkb 1. Send third level character if it's available 2. Otherwise send it as normal Alt+key keystroke or do both 1. Send € character, but Alt (normal) E keycodes I am not sure how xkb and applications interact. Are Alt+key shortcut keycode based or character based?
> 1. Send third level character if it's available > 2. Otherwise send it as normal Alt+key keystroke Impossible. Either AltGr's keycode is mapped to the keysym ISO_Level3_Shift or to the symbol Alt_R (well, if we do not specify multiple groups for AltGr itself).
Bugzilla Upgrade Mass Bug Change NEEDSINFO state was removed in Bugzilla 3.x, reopening any bugs previously listed as NEEDSINFO. - benjsc fd.o Wrangler
Since we do not have working solution, I am closing this one... Feel free to reopen if you have any idea which can be used within current XKB solution.
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