Bug 32965 - Asturian (ast-ES) language matching missing ḷḷḥ
Summary: Asturian (ast-ES) language matching missing ḷḷḥ
Alias: None
Product: fontconfig
Classification: Unclassified
Component: orth (show other bugs)
Version: 2_1
Hardware: Other All
: medium normal
Assignee: Roozbeh Pournader
QA Contact: Behdad Esfahbod
Depends on:
Reported: 2011-01-10 06:12 UTC by Paul Sladen
Modified: 2012-02-20 22:11 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
i915 platform:
i915 features:

patch (173 bytes, patch)
2011-11-10 00:01 UTC, Akira TAGOH
Details | Splinter Review

Description Paul Sladen 2011-01-10 06:12:36 UTC
Forwarded as a result of: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+bug/603627

The matching code in FontConfig succeeds for Asturian (ast):

  $ FC_DEBUG=256 fc-query /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ubuntu-font-family/Ubuntu-R.ttf | grep ast
	lang: ...|ast|...

Despite the codepoints 'ḥ' and 'ḷḷ' (Latin Extended-Additional) not yet being present in the typeface font files.  These are U+1E25 and U+1E37 which are not yet listed in:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B8%B6 (Ḷḷ)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturian_language#Orthography (ḥ)

However these are not listed in the referenced:

Comment 1 Xuacu Saturio 2011-01-10 14:59:25 UTC
(In reply to comment #0)

> However these are not listed in the referenced:
>   http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/asturian.pdf

Hi Paul.
You may want to check the official grammar (Gramática de la Llingua Asturiana), as published by the Asturian Language Academy (in Asturian):

Ḷḷ and Ḥ are covered in pages 16 and 17, under «Grafíes dialeutales» (dialectal graphs)

Additionally Mr. Sanchez Vicente, used as source in The Alphabets of Europe, might be reached, if necessary, through his own blog:

Best regards
Comment 2 Maacub 2011-01-18 08:15:36 UTC
Hi! I'm Marquinos Costales, the Team Leader for the FreeDesktop translations for the Asturian language:

@Paul: Thanks very much for fill this bug! :)

@FreeDesktop: Yes, we need these 2 letters for the Asturian language!

The official text about these 2 letters is this (page 16 & 17):

If anybody need a translation or anything more, please, tell me ;)
Best regards.
Comment 3 Paul Sladen 2011-01-18 09:56:07 UTC
Maacub: a translation to English would I'm sure be most useful.  But I think the case here is that "The Alphabets of Europe" is being used as an authoritative source, and disagrees(?) with "Gramática de la Llingua Asturiana".

If the author in question agrees that their work perhaps needs updating, then I'm sure that the maintainers of the FontConfig orthology set would probably be more comfortable making the change.
Comment 4 ivarela 2011-01-18 10:21:53 UTC
I'm Iñigo Varela. As Maacub said, the text is old and needs and updating. The author (Mr. Sánchez Vicente, Xuan Xosé) is member of Academy of Asturian Language (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_the_Asturian_Language#List_of_members), and the text source is dated in: 1996

I think we can contact with him, and gets his approval to an updating. The problem is: How to contact with "The Alphabets of Europe" to modify/update it?

I think I can contact with Xuan Xosé in 7-10 days. What must he do it? It's enough to write an e-mail to "The Alphabets of Europe"?

Comment 5 Xuan Xosé 2011-01-24 13:07:20 UTC
Dear bug fixers:

My name is Xuan Xosé Sánchez Vicente, a member of the Asturian Language Academy (ALLA) and author of «Diccionariu asturianu-castellanu castellanu-asturianu», used as reference for the Asturian alphabet in «The Alphabets of Europe».

Iñigo Varela, a member of the Asturian Translators Team, contacted me some days ago to clarify an issue on Asturian alphabet regarding the «Ḥ» and «Ḷ» letters (bug # 32965,
https://bugs.freedesktop.org//show_bug.cgi?id=32965 )

I do confirm that such letters are used in Asturian language to write our words. Hence, the letter «ḥ» is considered as an accented variant of letter «h», and the digraph «ḷḷ» is an accented variant of digraph «ll», as is stated in the academic grammar by ALLA http://www.academiadelallingua.com/diccionariu/gramatica_llingua.pdf
so the "The Alphabets of Europe (Asturian)", needs an update to agrees with "Gramática de la Llingua Asturiana". ("Gramática de la Llingua Asturiana" it's the official and actual reference for our language)

While certain workarounds as "h." and "l.l" were used in the past to solve the lack of the real characters for printing and computing, now it's preferred to use the real Unicode characters.

In case you need further input on this issue, you may contact me at:
sanchezvicente (at) terra (dot) es or the Asturian Language Academy at alla (at) academiadelallingua (dot) com

Best regards,
Xuan Xosé Sánchez Vicente
Comment 6 Maacub 2011-03-17 01:14:27 UTC
Hi! Please, the title must be: Asturian (ast-ES)...
Thanks ;)
Comment 7 Akira TAGOH 2011-11-10 00:01:08 UTC
Created attachment 53362 [details] [review]

Is this the expected fix for this? can anyone confirm?
Comment 8 Paul Sladen 2011-11-10 01:16:48 UTC
Looking at Page 17 of the attached PDF, the capitalised versions are also used in the titles referring to the lowercase letters, in which case, probably:

  U+1e24 (Ḥ)
  U+1e36 (Ḷ)

would need to be included too?
Xuan Xosé, Xuacu Saturio: should all four ('Ḥ ḥ Ḷ ḷ') be added to the minimum set for ast-ES?
Comment 9 Xuacu Saturio 2011-11-11 16:19:00 UTC
(In reply to comment #8)

Hi Paul, all
Thank you very much for your interest in this bug

> > Xuan Xosé, Xuacu Saturio: should all four ('Ḥ ḥ Ḷ ḷ') be added to the minimum
> set for ast-ES?

Yes, it's just the perfect fix. Asturian language uses one capitalized version for every letter in the alphabet, including accented characters.

We are trying to get in touch again with Mr. Sánchez Vicente so he can confirm this too.

Best regards!
Comment 11 Xuacu Saturio 2011-11-14 06:49:35 UTC
(In reply to comment #10)

Nice! As soon as this patch is accepted, this bug can be marked as resolved.

Thank you all very much in name af the Asturian speaking community!
Comment 12 Akira TAGOH 2012-02-20 22:11:42 UTC
Fixed in 5582043a.

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